Smiti: Hi, everyone, and welcome to another podcast session by AdvantageClub.ai. My name is Smiti, and I’m one of the founders of AdvantageClub.ai, which is an HR tech platform focused on rewards, recognition, employee engagement and communities. Today we have with us, another amazing person. Her name is Monica Pandey and she’s the VP and head HR of Alliance Insurance Brokers. Hi, Monica. Welcome to the podcast.

Monica: Hi, Smiti. Thank you so much for having me here. Before you go further, allow me to compliment you first on this wonderful new initiative that you have launched. I’m amazed that you wear so many hats, and it’s quite an honor to be here with you today.

Smiti: Thank you, Monica. The honor is ours. And, I think, while of course the job which I do is my daily job, this actually digs into my passion, which is, meeting with amazing people like you, talking to new people, learning more things, what’s happening in the market and, of course, learning about leaders and how they grow. It really helps me grow as a person as well. So really happy you’re here with us today.

Monica: I agree with you on that Smiti, about learning from each other. That’s what makes us become the people we are.

Smiti: Absolutely Monica. So, of course, we know everything about you, but we want to let our audience know as well. So if we can start with a little bit about your background, what you do and your journey as a leader in the HR space, that would be amazing.

Monica: So, Smiti, before I begin, I want to give a disclaimer. I have seen some of the previous podcast shows, and you’ve been having some really amazing senior HR leaders over here, and I’m sure you’ll continue to do so. So today I want to address HR professionals who are at the start of their journeys, because the rest have already been there and done that. And I want to give another disclaimer that, in a world that is VUCA to …BANI today, I think we are all very familiar with lots of HR jargon. So I promise to keep all the jargon out of today’s show. So on that note, let me introduce myself. You asked me about my journey, and I have just one statement that sums it all up. I have lived my life in the reverse gear. So let me help you understand that.

Typically, most people have a straight trajectory, that is college, then a job, marriage, growing professionally, then having a family. In fact, most HR professionals these days at the peak of their careers are turning towards a degree in psychology or getting their executive coach certification done. I have, on the other hand, lived things differently.

So for me, it was marriage, then college, then starting a family, then doing a full-time master’s in psychology, then going on to teach psychology at the university level and clinical practice, specializing in adult depression, anger, anxiety, stress, chronic pain management and of course, relationship counseling. After a decade, I felt the need to touch more lives. And that’s when I went ahead and got a full-time MBA in HR, and started my HR journey. In my initial years, I have spent a lot of years in consulting, and that has given me a solid foundation across various HR functions, right from OD to learning and development to competency-based recruitment and so on and so forth. So I feel, wherever I am today, I feel very blessed to be where I am, currently heading the HR function for Alliance. So that’s a little bit about me.

Smiti: It’s amazing, and I think, it’s also an inspiration for a lot of people who are not sure about whether they can switch streams or they can move from what they’re doing to doing something else as well. And I think your journey, from getting married to becoming a student to becoming a mother to doing your master’s to maybe becoming a psychologist or you’re basically studying psychology and counseling and then doing an MBA. It’s like a testament to the fact that you can do whatever you want to do at whatever stage of life and still be successful as long you have the passion and the drive to move and grow forward. So that’s really amazing. I didn’t know that about you, actually.

Monica: Thank you, Smiti.

Smiti: So, I’m going to change a little bit in terms of the question format also. I was thinking that this is interesting because, you have lived life in, I wouldn’t call it a reverse gear, but in any gear you wanted to live in. And that’s been very interesting to me also to hear. So, I’m wondering how, whether all of these experiences which you’ve had have helped you in becoming a better people manager, becoming more empathetic towards the employees of the organization. Do you think that your stint in psychology, your stint in counseling, or maybe being a teacher at a certain point of time has helped you really grow in HR as well?

Monica: Definitely, Smiti. I mean, the entire reason why I did HR was to play in a larger playground, you could say. So while I was touching individual lives, I wanted to make a difference at the larger scale. Now if you look at the current scenario, definitely empathy is something that is essential to keep the employees together and address a lot of issues, the talent-related issues that we may have. As a psychologist, I do feel I have the upper edge.

Smiti, when we complete our degrees, and especially if you do a full-time degree, we have a whole one-year internship in mental hospitals, schools, different schools, and so on. So, we are taught to practice certain ethics. We have to take certain oaths, and these oaths include being non-judgmental. These oaths include maintaining confidentiality and trust of your patients. And the same oaths get extended into the HR domain also, because, if I look at it, currently as the HR head, it’s a very fine balancing act, and I had thought of covering this a little later, but I did so already.

So it’s a balancing act because it is critical to represent the management to the employees, as well as to represent the employees to the management. At times, if you do not have the sound grounding in psychology, it can get very easy to side up with one perspective while overlooking another. So psychology gives me that added advantage where I’m able to weigh all the sides. of the coin and come to an unbiased perspective about what would be the appropriate thing to do in such a scenario so that neither the organization or the management feels that our interests are not protected, nor does the employee feel that my interests have not been protected. So that’s the added advantage that I get.

Smiti: Absolutely right, and, I also feel that, if you’re in human resources, it also gets sometimes very overwhelming, when you’re dealing with human resource related issues day in and day out. It’s not an easy job. It looks like that from the outside, but it’s not just physically, but also mentally draining process at the end of the day. So I think a study of psychology also helps a person navigate that better, and now I’m thinking about it. I think psychology as a course at least should be a mandate among all the HR professionals.

Monica: So Smiti, I’ll tell you what. No matter how many courses you do, until you practice, it’s a very different ball game. It’s only when you encounter patients day in, day out, and you see the kind of problems they are dealing with, that your entire life and all the issues you have seem really minuscule in comparison. So I feel blessed to have studied psychology. I feel blessed to have practiced, because each patient, while I may have taught them, life has to be looked upon in shades of gray and not black and white, they have taught me a lot of things. They have taught me resilience. So, I would say, if you get a degree, you need to even kind of practice it in your day-to-day life.

Smiti: Makes sense. And, switching from so many streams, and then also even in HR, handling multiple areas like OD, L&D, recruitment, of course that would not have been easy. So, how did you navigate challenges, or how do you navigate challenges when the going gets tough? And any examples of failures which you’ve experienced and how you’ve overcome them and what you’ve learned from them?

Monica: Well, I’ll say this, Smiti. Imagine a life that is perfect. Do you think that is possible?

Smiti: Absolutely not. I don’t think life is meant to be perfect.

Monica: Absolutely. I mean, you would be getting up, doing the same things every day, day in, day out, and your life would be boring. I mean, imagine getting up and watching Kyunki saas bhi kabhi bahu thi and nothing at all happens in it. So, all I’m saying is that life is not perfect, it is not meant to be perfect. That is what I teach my patients, that you have to have a holistic perspective and take life as it comes. So I’m not different. I have had my fair share of challenges, if not anything else.

Let me narrate the latest incident. Last year, I had to step into my predecessor’s shoes and become the new HR head. Now, this was a challenge because I was supposed to lead a team of seniors and peers, and obviously they had a lot of things going on in their mind. Now, as I jokingly say, everything from divorces to world wars can be avoided with a lot of communication, so communication is the key. So my first step was to acknowledge and, I also had to give them time to accept me. Once this was done, a lot of communication, a lot of heart-to-heart conversations, and helping them see my authentic self really helped me navigate the barriers. And, trust me, I believe, I’m very lucky to have the team I have today. All the issues have been overcome and we stand strong as an HR team today.

Smiti: No, that’s great. And that’s also one of the challenges when you are appointed as a new leader and there’s change management happening in any organization. While of course it is difficult for the leader to adjust in a new role or a new organization, it’s even harder for the team to readjust from the previous leader to the new leader. And, it’s primarily one of the harder jobs of the leader at that point to make the team comfortable, get them aligned to their interest, because what they think is not probably what the previous one used to think. And ideologies, thought processes, approaches, strategies, everything changes from person to person. So, that’s definitely a major challenge, which I’m happy you’ve been able to overcome very well. And like you said, life is only perfect, I think, on Instagram, it has to have challenges to navigate.

So, I wanted to understand, like, who has been your biggest supporter or your biggest mentor over the course of your career?

Monica: So, Smiti, it’s hard to pinpoint a single person, but I learned from a lot of people around, starting from my family, my mom, my elder sister. These people have been very instrumental in pushing me to the mindset that I should never be a homemaker. I should be a career woman. So starting from there, and then of course, I feel privileged to have had the bosses I have had. Yes, there have been a share of challenging bosses. We all go through them. But even those I feel have always ended up teaching me something. If not anything else, teaching me a lot of patience. So that’s been of use.

And, in terms of really good mentors, I’ve been very lucky to have people like Tanvir Sheik, who was my mentor while I was with Acumen Business Processes. In fact, everybody over there, right from the CEO, Mr. Jayesh Tarpade, to my immediate boss, Samir Pimpre, all the three gentlemen have been really instrumental in helping me become a rounded HR professional. Then Mr. Ashish Arora from HR Anexi, he’s played a very important role in my life. My immediate boss, my predecessor, who was the HR head at Alliance, Mr. Joseph. So all these bosses have been very kind and very patient to encourage me to question, to encourage me to learn from them. And they have also been very open about how they have navigated things. So I truly credit my bosses with all that I am on the professional front today. And my family for all that I am on the personal front today.

Smiti: That’s great. You’ve been lucky to have great bosses and of course, I think the family support is, again, something very common, which I see, with basically strong women, especially women who are in leadership positions. And I truly believe that, strong mothers make stronger daughters, so a lot of what women become is attributed to what their mothers have taught them or pushed them towards, don’t live a mundane life. Push your boundaries. Do what you can do more than what you’re doing right now. So that’s great.

So, in terms of the next question, I wanted to understand, typically, the current situation. So today’s scenario has become very unpredictable and not only is there insecurity in the market, at the same time, employee needs have been changing rapidly. So what are the steps, according to you, that HR leaders should take to address the changing needs of their employees today?

Monica: You nailed it, Smiti. I do believe that in this BANI world, it’s very critical that we have a few guidelines or a few mantras of our own. So I have developed my very own model, which I call the A-B-C of HR, and that stands for agility, balance and catalysis. So when I say agility, like you rightly said, the needs are extremely, ever-evolving, which means as HR professionals, it’s critical for us to keep stepping up our game, to keep ourselves abreast with all the recent requirements of the workforce as well as of the organizations. When I say balance, I think, Smiti, I already explained it, what I meant by balance. It’s critical that we take a very unbiased picture of the scenario and ensure that both the needs of the employees and the employers are kept in a balanced state. And when I say catalysis, obviously we are the change agents, obviously we are the people who have to accelerate growth, both for individuals and for organizations. So I believe if we keep these three principles in our mind all the time, all our actions will be oriented towards those and it’ll be difficult for us to go wrong too much.

Smiti: That’s absolutely on point. So agility, creating a balance, and of course, in terms of catalysis, being the change you want to see around you, are the three definite mantras for managing the changing needs of the employees today.

And, since we’re talking about employee needs, let’s also talk a little bit about employee experience and, we talked about engagement today. According to you, what kind of innovations have you seen or what kind of innovations have you done in your organization to drive a better employee experience, better employee recognition or, better way of employee belongingness?

Monica: So, Smiti, we live in a world where we cannot afford to miss out on employee engagement. So definitely, every organization does run-of-the-mill things and I will not go into narrating those because I believe it’s common across organizations. But let me narrate something that is close to my heart and that is, according to me, a very nice initiative. Smiti, let me begin by asking you this. Did you think about five years back that you could walk into a lip bar and have a customized lipstick as per your mood of the day, the flavor that you want, the color that you want with your name engraved on the lipstick and so on and so forth? Had you imagined that?

Smiti: No, I think there used to be even a limited set of brands back then, right? You only had the Ellies and the Maybellines and, even the MAC and all were not that popular, at least back then.

Monica: Exactly. And today you can do this. You can actually walk, there’s a lip bar in the US and Canada, and you can actually do all of this. All I’m trying to say is that we live in an era of extreme personalization, extreme customization, and If we do not bring personalized solutions to our employees, they are not going to be engaged.

So with that goal in mind, we launched our in-house coaching program for managers and senior leaders. And, myself, supported by my colleague who’s also an executive coach, we lead this initiative wherein we carve out a personal roadmap for the leaders, for the managers. And, of course, through regular executive coaching sessions, we help them reach the end outcomes that they are looking for so that we are all on the same page. Creating a win for them, helps us create a win for the organization too. So that’s an initiative that’s close to my heart, and it’s seen a good amount of success, I must say.

Smiti: That’s great. And, you’re bang on, right, that until unless you personalize and customize the experience for an employee, nobody wants that run-of-the-mill, maybe a standardized gym membership anymore. Everybody wants exactly what they need, and employers have also become very vocal about it.

I mean, 10 years ago, if you’ve given something to an employee, I mean, they’ll never come back and challenge that. But today, employees are very vocal about what they want, and if they get something which is not as per their requirements, they will also give you reverse feedback that, “This is not something which I need. Probably XYZ would have been better for me.” So, absolutely, that is a definite need of the employee which really helps drive a better positive employee experience.

And any advice, you would like to give to the HR leaders of tomorrow? And that’s also my last question for today.

Monica: Okay. So, Smiti, I believe in the power of stories. So let me tell you a story. Once there was a farmer and a baker, and these guys were very good friends. So every day, the farmer would buy a pound of bread from the baker. After a couple of years, the baker told the farmer that he would like to purchase a pound of butter from the farmer in exchange. And so they began exchanging a pound of loaf for a pound of butter. Now after a while, the baker thought that he was being cheated by the farmer. He got angry and he decided to go to court. Now when the judge called the farmer, the farmer said, ” Your Honor, I’m a very poor man and I do not have a weighing scale.” So the judge asked, “How do you weigh out the butter in that case?” So the farmer said, “I do a very simple thing. On one side, I keep the pound of loaf, and on the other, the butter. And whatever comes out is what I give.” The moral of the story is karma has a way of coming back to you.

So when you ask me for a piece of advice for HR professionals, my only advice would be that I understand that there are a lot of fears and insecurities that everybody has, with regards to their jobs. And, people end up with negativity in the workforce or in teams. But it’s very important for us to believe in ourselves and to not operate from a space of fear or a space of insecurity, because if we try to bring somebody else down, it’s gonna come back to us. So my parting note is going to be just believe in yourself and you’ll be fine.

Smiti: I love that. I love the farmer-baker story. And, yeah, absolutely. I’m also a big believer in karma, and I do believe that whatever you give to the universe, the universe actually doubles and gives it back to you. So you give positivity out there and then you get double of it. You get negativity out there, you literally get double of it. So, totally agree on the positive impact which you can put outside in the universe itself. With that note, we are at the end of the podcast. And thank you. Thank you so much for your precious time today, Monica, especially on a Saturday. Really appreciate you coming down here and chatting with us. And I’m sure our viewers will love this podcast and love to hear what you had to say today.

Monica: Thank you, Smiti. Very kind of you. Thanks a lot. And, very happy weekend to you. If it’s the weekend for the viewers, then a happy weekend to the viewers too.