Smiti: Hi, everyone. And welcome to yet another amazing podcast with another amazing person on Inspiring Leaders and Leadership by AdvantageClub.ai, which is an employee engagement, rewards, recognition, onboarding, wellness, and end-to-end employee experience platform. My name is Smiti, and I’m the founder of AdvantageClub.ai, and today we have Dr. Amit Singh, joining us. He is Associate Vice President and Head Corporate Human Resources of Aster DM Healthcare. Welcome, Dr. Amit. It’s a pleasure to have you here.

Dr.Amit: Thank you, it’s an absolute pleasure to be a part of this forum. I’ve sort of recently gotten to know of the great work that AdvantageClub.ai is doing, so very happy to contribute anything towards it.

Smiti: Thank you for the kind words, Dr. Amit. And, we, of course, know a lot about you, but we’d love to have our viewers learn a little bit about you as well. So, one is, of course, what you do, but what I’m more interested in making my viewers listen to is your journey into becoming what you are today. So if you could just tell us a little bit about your background, what you do, and your journey, we can start from there.

Dr.Amit: Surely. So, for me, I have not had a traditional path to becoming the HR head or the role that I do because at my time, most people typically were trained in HR or grew up from the management background. So I come from a different background. Let me start from the reverse. I graduated in dental surgery as a trained doctor. And those are all peer pressures of growing up. You had to be a doctor or engineer, and this was exactly 20 years ago. I did a small stint in a private practice and owned a practice, and that’s when I realized that, this doesn’t really give me true happiness or satisfaction of really working. The money was good, but very interestingly, I began soul searching to say, ,”What is it that I wish to be doing for the next 30-40 years of life that comes naturally to me?” And that is where I began my journey.

I started with a United Nations Development ProjectAssociation That was a small role, but the exposure was phenomenal. I think, my first mentor and my manager, Mr. Amresh, we worked together for a period of two and a half years, and I think that experience really transformed me to say that, helping people find the best position for themselves, or helping people find their purpose, so that they can be the best versions of themselves, really emerged. And this was almost 20 years ago.

However, with his guidance, I moved on to doing an MBA, and that was very fortunate because he helped me understand by saying, “You need to have management understanding. You need to understand more about business to be able to be a very good HR partner.” I didn’t know what HR does. I still remember those days. And perhaps my management education also, I went to IIM Calcutta, and after my course, I joined this company called Moser Baer. At that time, it used to be a blue-chip company, and I was with them in the learning function. And that’s the first time I really understood what human resources as a function does. Because even management was generic, but one of the things that really stood out during my management course was a desire to understand people. So organizational behavior was a natural favorite for me, and that’s how it delved in.

Post Moser Baer, I had a long experience with a large company called Pearson. It used to be one of the largest companies in the world at that time in education, with about 80,000 people across 80 countries. And I think that really cemented my fundamental understanding in working in a large diverse organization across roles, across geographies, across various aspects of HR, and really cementing the world of people and business. And I think that’s been very fundamental.

And I think then Aster happened. I’ve been in this role for the last seven years, and Aster’s the company that’s given me phenomenal opportunities. I joined here as the head of talent management for the group. We were about 12,000 people then. Today, we are 28,000 people as a group. We went public in 2018, and I think it’s been a phenomenal journey during these last seven years. I moved to being the corporate head of HR, and over the years, the role’s been only expanding and growing. And today I look at various new initiatives, new businesses in HR, one of the largest businesses, within the Aster Group umbrella, which is the Aster Retail. I head the HR directly as the chief HR there. So various roles, but I think it’s just been a phenomenal journey learning and growing each day. So I think today’s a brighter day, but I think lots more to look forward to, and a very interesting journey internally, and a lot more exciting times ahead for Aster and my career hopefully.

Smiti: That’s amazing. And, I also want to point out that you’ve also switched a lot of geographies. So why don’t you talk a little bit about that.

Dr.Amit: I started operating in India, a large territory in itself, but with that role, that expanded me to the Indian subcontinent in Sri Lanka, Bangladesh. And I started understanding differences in geographies, different landmarks, etc. A little bit of exposure in terms of Singapore happened then, and then work took me to Kuwait, and that was my first exposure to the Middle East. And I also understood what the regions are.

However, having said that, in my previous company, I also managed international teams. I was looking at a large talent role across geographies. So that really gave me an impetus to look at the culture’s views and the way business operates. And then I realized that people are people; essentially they want to do good. But what really helps us understand the wider context is the varying cultures. And I think for us, that exposure really helped me in my current role. And today, when you look at it, Aster is really diversifying. So we’re building a global company, and those experiences that I’ve gained from my past really helped me enable today. So even today, when you look at Aster, we’re venturing into new markets, different GCC markets, we’ve ventured now into Jordan. And I think the amalgamation, the tolerance to different cultures, varieties, and understanding specs of where they come from, is really crucial to the role that I do.

Smiti: That makes sense. And you also spoke a little bit about organizational behavioral management, So OBM is also a very crucial role, especially as a leader in HR, when you’re managing various geographies in various cultures, and there are genuine cultural differences in different countries, different geographies. And, sometimes it gets really challenging for leaders to identify what works for one geography might not work for the other. So how would you recommend leaders who are handling diverse populations in different countries, different geographies, to approach this problem and solve it in the right way?

Dr.Amit: I think great question, because, when you look at HR, the cultural context of HR cannot be taken away from HR, So when I look at a successful HR professional, and if I look at the competencies, of course, there are various models, various thought processes, and we’re all aware of that, but I segment them into three broad or probably three large buckets, perhaps. The first is, do I understand the context of the business that I’m operating in? And, this perhaps if you speak to my team, it’s been repeated so many times so that we are all aligned to one, have one common theme that we work with. So the first large bucket within HR is, I always say, do I understand my business and the business context that I operate in, its challenges, external, and internal? And that is very essential.

The second is the functional part of HR. Do I understand the nuances of best practices? What makes a successful human resource practice? Because today, HR from an art has also become science, and do you understand the science part? Today, HR has evolved to looking at things from a technology perspective, looking at things from a compensation perspective, which requires a lot of data science, looking at things from a very analytical perspective or data perspective. So these are very advanced practices in HR that will change the way HR is looked at. So from that functional aspect, I forgot certain elements of talent and looked at talent very differently. So that’s the second bucket I really categorize.

The third thing I think is very important between the business and the function of HR, is collaboration and influence. Now, this part is very crucial for you to influence. Whenever you’re looking at an influential role, your cultural understanding, cultural context is very important. Today, I interact with leaders across very divergent geographies. And India is a very different geography from Saudi Arabia, and do I make sense and am I able to understand the context of a leader who’s based out of Bangalore versus in Riyadh, and if I’m able to look at those differentiation, versus a third leader who’s based out of Jordan or Dubai, could be very different. So these cultural context nuances, etc, help me understand the employee challenges and help them connect to the business problems that we have or provide business solutions. The same solution, while at a principle level may be similar, the exact replication of a policy may be very different in Saudi Arabia versus even Dubai, though the Middle East or versus India. So I think those could be realms of understanding people.

This is also in terms of who we bring on board. Today, the world’s become much smaller. At the tip of the mouse, you can connect to somebody in the US or the UK and start having a conversation. And today, they’re very open to looking at countries all across or companies all across. So we attract a lot of people from the Western world. So understanding the context of what they come from, what they view as a great career, as a great company, is very different from where the East has looked at, though they are synergies now. So, I have to talk to them, bring in relevance, because for them, for many cultures starting with a salary may be a very bad conversation to have. In certain cultures , you also say, “Let’s address the elephant in the room.” So those nuances and understanding bring a lot more confidence in the person that’s really running the show or managing the entire realm, and those things are very important for us to consider.

Smiti: That totally makes sense. And, you also mentioned that talking to employees and really understanding their needs can help you identify their challenges or even understand cultural nuances better. I think, what we should also talk a little bit about, and I would love to hear from you, is, around the concept of listening, how can we actually listen to our employees, their needs better, and how can, as an organization, an HR leader approach this in a better manner?

Dr.Amit: I think that’s a fantastic question. Smiti, many times we create strategies without having a pulse on the ground. And this is some feedback that you will hear constantly from business leaders saying, “Do you understand my business now?” I think at Aster, within the team, within HR or across, I think listening is very fundamental. And, this comes in from the core management and leadership driven by Dr. Moopen himself, who’s an avid listener, and he’s built the foundation of really listening across the organization. So we’ve got various listening programs. And for us, any strategy is built with lots of listening on the ground and really carved into the strategy to say, “Perhaps this is what our people or our organization might need.

So to give you an example, in terms of listening, we have various channels. there are formal channels, there are informal channels. there are direct channels, there are indirect channels. So lots of formal and quantitative channels. For example, most organizations would do an employee engagement survey, which we do. We do a culture survey, exit surveys, we do point-in-time people experience surveys, customer experience surveys, and relate that to the work we do. But those are formal listening channels, and we constantly take inputs from them to design a strategy.

However, I think what we pride in and what differentiates us is there’s a lot of informal listening channels. And there is one channel that we’ve kind of picked up in the last three years, and we call it the Frontline Obsession, it is where we’ve created a bridge between the top management and the frontline. And this is a session where every fortnight we have the entire executive top management, including the chairman, the managing director, the CEOs. We have a forum where we pick up one unit every fortnight, and we really have a two hours detailed listening session with them.

We’ve segmented them into three employee groups. We have doctors, nurses and other enabling and support staff. And we’ve created forums for entire ones to write to us, ask us questions, talk about certain challenges that we have. And we use that entire forum to look at them as, how can we build our strategy around them, concerns, the challenges and the ideas. Those listening forums don’t only help us address the concerns and challenges directly but also help us address key ideas. And if you notice today, Smiti, the greatest of ideas actually comes from the ground, because they know what the customer wants. They know the customer’s pain points. We, who sit in the offices, don’t really have access to the day-to-day customer or the patient pain points in our industry, like we say. And certain pain points that come from them are so critical to the success of the larger organizations. For us, our Frontline Obsession program has been formalized. It’s managed by the chairman’s office directly.

HR is a precursor as a habit, and I think we take great pride in the program that’s reached out to every single person in the frontline of 27,000 people across the year. So today as we speak, we have thousands of suggestions and ideas, and what we do is pick out from those ideas the relevant respective people, funnel them, and probably sponsor for support. Lots of such great small ones, big ones have come from that. And today, that’s become a big precursor for us, to look at how we enhance the lives of our people using the ideas that they’ve shared, lives of our patients, lives of our customers, using the ideas they’ve shared. So today that’s something very powerful. So I think in short, no amount of listening is less Smiti. I think I’d urge all my HR colleagues to do enough and listen more, keep their feet on the ground, because that’s what gives you a real sense and pulse of the organization.

Smiti: I love the Frontline Obsession concept, and it’s not only a forum for employees to voice their thoughts and concerns, but also becomes a way to build the strategy in the right way and go to that level of understanding employees. But I actually have a follow-up question on that. So for a lot of organizations, what we’ve seen and heard is that most companies are actually scared of actually doing such forums because it might, it’s a thought process around it, that it would add to negativity. So do you believe in that? And how do you manage the energy of the room when you’re doing such forums?

Dr.Amit: I think it’s a great question. And, these are perceptions that we’ve had. I don’t believe any war could have been solved without communication, So no matter how hostile the situation is when you look at, universe per se, the only solution, the best solution, is to really get down to the table and talk. You look at countries , bickering with each other, the only solution is arbitrating and finding solutions through communication. Perhaps these are our people, these are our employees that work within the realm, that help build Aster, that service the customers. So I think it’s only fair for us to at least have an honest listening platform and listen to their worries. Sometimes we’re not able to take action, and it’s a shame. But, having the entire executive committee really listen and put their feet on the ground and say, “I think that’s pain,” and at least empathize.

A genuine empathy solves half the problem. The rest half, we are at least trying to find smaller solutions, sometimes there are larger solutions, but something that’s in purview of the context or the challenges, I think is a solution in itself. So not necessarily that we found solutions to every one forum but the fact is, it also shows honesty. And I think more important that you called out, we are brave and forthright to say, “We wanna listen to you.” And I say, I’ve never seen a situation where communication can spoil a relationship; it only strengthens the relationship. And I think the more you listen, the more you build communication, the more bridges you build, the stronger the organization’s ties and networks are.

And perhaps, honestly, this has led to a lot of positive belief. A lot of people have particularly mentioned about programs around listening, when people have left us. And we have a lot of people that leave us and come back to us because they realize that this is a great organization or person. So these are relationships, and Aster is really focused on building those relationships with people internally, externally, all across.

Smiti: And giving 28,000 people a voice and you’re actually caring about them and listening to them, it genuinely shows how much empathy the organization has towards the employees. I think it also puts that message right home that we really wanna listen to you and we really care about you.

Dr.Amit: Absolutely.

Smiti: You’ve started your career as a doctor, and there’s once a doctor, always a doctor, but I also think you were probably the black sheep of that community. But do you think your background in the medicine industry has really helped you, contribute better as an HR individual in the medical industry again?

Dr.Amit: Definitely. This is healthcare, and I’ll come back to it later, but throughout my career, I think, the clinical background or the medical training that I’ve had in terms of my graduation has tremendously helped me. Very interestingly, Smiti, in my time, an engineer with an HR degree was preferred over a doctor with an HR degree, and that was the norm. Because at my time, you’re typically an engineer, you would go to B-school, we had few B-school specializing in HR would pass out and, and would really do a great job, And at that time, I’d feel challenged to say, somebody who’s learned data and machines, how can he be better at managing human beings than a doctor who’s learnt about humans. So, for me, psychology came naturally because of the training that we’ve been doing in human psychology. When you look at the whole idea of medicine is it’s around pain, it’s around understanding your patient. So, my first 15 years were never with healthcare or the first 14 years were not with healthcare. It’s with other industries, when you look at Moser Baer, it was tech manufacturing, when you look at Pearson, it was an education and technology company.

Smiti: Exactly.

Dr.Amit: But the core essence of human beings and understanding and collaborating, the third element that I said, the third bucket always helped me sort of, look, relook at my role and work, and I’ve always leveraged that. So I think it’s definitely been a boon. Coming back to healthcare, it looked like a natural fit. It looked like I’m hiring my colleagues and talking to the people that I’ve studied with. So that was a natural added advantage. A lot of times, people differentiate me from the rest of the HR group. I get an advantage, particularly because I’m a doctor, so they say atleast you understand our problem. Not necessarily my colleagues don’t, but that empathy comes naturally, and I do take advantage of that. But there’s also a lot of respect that’s given to you, to look at it from a different lens to say, “I think there’s merit in what he’s saying because he’s been a doctor himself.” So those things definitely help. But I think per se, the whole education background is when you look at a graduation, it’s about the subwork fundamentals and values, and basic capabilities beyond just the core functional capabilities that one should be focusing on. So today when we meet graduates, one of the things you often talk about is functional capabilities you learn eventually on the job. Build the basic human capabilities, and there’s something that you continue all life long. So I think that’s been a very important precursor to my career overall.

Smiti: That’s amazing. And, I was at an event the other day where there was this conversation happening around. Somebody had a question that why is it that in a lot of major business decisions, in certain cases, HR is looked at as second to business and not equivalent to business? And, there’s this gentleman who’s the CHRO of a very large organization, won’t name him, but he made a fair point. He said that when you look at a business leader, you always expect a kind of competency in terms of making business decisions, understanding how those things work. As an HR leader, how many of us can actually go ahead and say we really understand human behavior? Understanding that from the core is the first step of actually mastering that. And then you can come and say, “Okay, I’m parallel to this business or that business.” So, I think the core basic pointer of understanding and helping change human behavior is the most important thing. And that brings me to my last question of the day. What would be the pieces of advice you would like to give to the HR leaders of tomorrow?

Dr.Amit: The example that you gave is very relevant, and perhaps what the HR leader said is also very relevant. But I think times are changing, Smiti, to be honest. I’ve had two of my previous managers grow up to be CEOs, and that’s because I think times are changing. Today, when you look at the manufacturing world, which was the world of yesterday, the world has moved from manufacturing to services. And in services, it’s about people. It’s about innovation. Innovation is not dependent on tools and techniques, but on people and how they think and the empowerment that you provide. Today when you look at it, the world’s moved from creating something to collaborating. So with all of these new world skills and, and the century that we live in, with the context of the skills today, HR’s role has become even more important. So like I said, if one was to really look at the context of the business and use the HR skills, I think there’s no doubt today that you’ll definitely become not only a strong business partner, but a very strong enabler for the business.

Smiti: I also feel it’s not just about becoming an enabler. I feel it’s about basically owning that entire piece and saying that, “Okay, you understand the business, but I’m the one who understands people,” And people run the business, So technically, the people function needs to be the most important one there.

Dr.Amit: Absolutely, and I completely agree. And today people are the business, so if you look at consulting, if you look at technology, if you look at all services. As, as a firm, we’re one of the largest healthcare companies, Now, if you look at it, what do we do? Our people deliver the services. We have great clinicians, we have great nurses that provide the care. And today it’s all about people. I think you don’t even remember the kind of equipment that was used on you when you do a surgery, but you remember the surgeon’s name, you remember the nurse’s name, you remember the whole experience, And that’s how the world is moving to. So again, to your point today, HR is becoming a very strong business partner. And, that’s why, you see, there’s no dearth of HR, people moving into business roles, and as CEOs. This is because of the fact that, today, we really understand people and people run the business.

So I think they’re interconnected. And, like we say, HR’s job is not to manage people, but to manage business through people. So, I think that’s how we’ve redefined. Very fortunate to have a bunch of really strong team members who believe in this concept at Aster. And I think that’s how, at Aster, we’ve been able to build a great partnership with the business that is allowing us to share an equal pie of the decision making, equal respect, and shoulder-to-shoulder responsibilities. So I think it’s the team and us, that we genuinely believe that we’re not on the sidelines or a different share, but we’re equal partners, and we help businesses run the business together.

Smiti: Absolutely. And, since we’re talking about this, and the reason I pulled out this question is because there are so many people who aspire, especially HR leaders who aspire to become CEOs or owning more pieces over time. So what would be your recommendation? One is, of course, you identify behavioral management and then you own that entire piece, but what would be your advice to these HR leaders to actually achieve their goals and get the right equal seat at the table eventually. Because like I said, people are everything to an organization. You can change equipment, technology changes, business plans change, strategies change, but people, they always remain there. And I think it’s really important to manage them. So what would be your piece of advice to these aspiring HR leaders of tomorrow?

Dr.Amit: Yes. I think the central theme for me and my career is that we have to operate from a lens of authenticity. You have to be true to yourself. Smiti, if I look at you, and you’re doing such a fantastic job at The AdvantageClub.ai, and if I put you in any other role that pays you more, probably you would not be able to do what you do the best You like the realm that you’ve created, and I think that’s your authentic self, and I truly wish you success. So I think for each one of us, we have a natural strength, and that for you is very important. What is it that comes naturally to you and what is it that you leverage best to create value? I think it’s not really looking at positions, roles or ones that are higher up or lower up; it’s the ones where you really enjoy yourself, the ones where you think, “I’m in the state of flow, where I don’t know how I spend the time, but I’m really thoroughly enjoying myself.”

If you look at history, professions were built around talent. Slowly, professions moved around money. So when somebody today tells you, “I’m doing professionally well,” it means he’s earning well. That’s so unfortunate. I’d say the profession was built around, for example if he’s a carpenter and he’s the most amazing carpenter and nobody could do his job. And if that gave him satisfaction, I think one should look at that more as a vocation or a calling, as a personal inspiration, so that his craft or what he can contribute is unique in value. And that’s the game one should focus on. Imagine if the world’s best designer thought that, “I’m gonna make money,” he could never design. Or if the world’s best sports person thought that, “Using this, I’m gonna get more ads,” he would never be the world’s best sports person.

So similarly, I talk about this to professionals, that each one of us is built with brilliance. You’ve gotta go back and think within yourself, “What’s my authentic self? What is something that comes naturally to me that nobody in the world could perhaps…” And that requires a lot of soul searching. So I urge people to look at themselves, especially after 10 years, 15 years of work, is, “What is the best that I can do?” And I really don’t care for what I get in return for that, because my craft is so good. And trust me, the world will recognize you when you produce something that’s more beautiful than average. And, that’s the way to go. So for me, I think of my own journey. I’ve just looked at, “What can I do best and how do I deliver whatever is given to me on the table the best?” But certain things I love to do, and they’ve always been the strengths that I do. There are parts of my job that may not be so cool or to my liking. There’s something that I chew. But what I really thrive on is parts of the job that I love, and that’s when I’m able to show my brilliance.

So my takeaway to every aspiring professional, not only in HR, even non-HR business, is do what you do best. If you’re a great marketer, run the company through marketing, help your business evolve through the work that you do. If you’re great at supply chain, leverage so much that you become an industry norm. People look at you. And when you look at industries today, each one’s got its own realm of brilliance, whether it’s tech, whether it’s supply chain, whether it’s consumer, whether it’s market-led, or people-led. Each firm brings its brilliance. And I think that’s what you’ve gotta be focusing on. And not look at successful skills because at the end, they don’t really work and they don’t give you the true satisfaction. Because I think, at the end of life, what you really wanna end up is, “Did I play a great game or not?” And I think that is something very personal.

Smiti: I love that. When you are at your deathbed, do you feel that, okay, you’ve just lived your life, or you’ve really lived your life? So, I think that sums up an amazing podcast session. And thank you so much, Amit, for your time today, and it was such a pleasure hosting you, and wishing you all the very best for your future endeavors. And may you keep growing and driving better and better employee experiences at whatever organizations you work at.

Dr.Amit: Thank you. Very kind of you. I take all your blessings with me, and I wish you the best, Smiti. Thank you to AdvantageClub.ai for getting people like us to voice our opinion and cascading this to millions of our viewers. I hope AdvantageClub.ai becomes a revered company in the coming times, and, wish to see you shine and rise, and always grow. So thank you very much for this time and opportunity, and it’s been lovely chatting with you.